GA Stipend is modest compared to executive compensation

[moksha]

The modest salary for the LDS executives (GAs) is offset by the other financial perks and celebrity status within the Church and Jell-O Belt.

[alas]

Another problem no one has mentioned is that these guys vote on their own pay. I don't trust congress for the same reason. Anyone who gets to determine their own pay with no checks and balances and no transparency is not to be trusted. These guys can't even be voted out of office.

The comparison to Document's bishop is not a good comparison because there is probably a committee who determines compensation for such positions. I'm pretty sure they do not get to decide their own compensation.

[Emower]

I am kind of sick of the comparison between these salaries and executives for a few reasons.

1. Since when has using "worldly" perspectives been a yardstick for comparing church anything!? The church preaches constantly that we cannot compare ourselves to the world. That is a sarcastic rhetorical question, I realize the church does it all the dang time, but why can't people realize that the church is contradicting themselves by making this justification.

2. What about in Mosiah where it expressly forbids this kind of thing? My dad told me the other day, (dad) "GBH abandoned his dreams and put his life on hold to work for the church." (Me) "Well dad, it sounds to me like the Book of Mormon wanted to avoid the whole situation where GBH would be required to do that." (Dad) "Well Ethan, I just don't see it that way" that was a frustrating conversation.

3. The transparency issue. This wouldn't even be an issue if the church would act a little less the part of the whore of Babylon and more the part of Jesus' church. Transparency, isn't it about time?

4. 120k is a perfectly decent, some might say flush living. So why are all our upper echelon leaders rich white dudes? If we really did have unpaid clergy, I can get on board with the whole they need money to sustain them through their long "cough" discipleship thing. That is clearly not the case, so as I suspected all along this is good ole boy leadership at its finest.

[document]

The comparison to Document's bishop is not a good comparison because there is probably a committee who determines compensation for such positions. I'm pretty sure they do not get to decide their own compensation.

That is correct. While his office does set the salary, it does not go into effect until it is voted upon at convention. The convention is a bicameral representative congress (clergy form one house, and elected lay delegates from each parish form the other house). Budgets (including the bishop's salary) are approved by a majority vote in both houses.

The convention could reject the salary, as I would expect they would if he jumped his salary up by a good chunk one year. If the convention rejects the salary, they would have to present a new one. Most of the time it just goes straight through because it is a 3% increase generally.

[document]

I had a thought today that really got me flustered and upset.

So, clergy are considered self-employed when it comes to SS tax, meaning they pay the full 12.4%. As I mentioned before, most churches take off as much as they can justify through "living expenses". Again, in the case of my priest, we put that at $18,000. Sometimes, $18,000 seems a little high for me but it is an agreed upon number in our budget meetings.

So, by paying $120,000 in living expense stipend, not salary, they are essentially getting out of $14,694 in social security tax. And that their "living expenses" are actually higher than the bloody cap on SS taxable income.

While it probably isn't illegal, it is, IMHO, a bad use of the tax law to get out of paying your fair share. I have to pay SS tax, and if I made that, I would still have to pay $7,347 while they pay $0 in SS tax. You'll notice from the pay stub that he doesn't pay SS tax.

Over 85 general authorities, that is $1,102,050 in SS taxes their aren't paying.

[moksha]

I understand that it is also tithing-free, base on the rationale of robbing Paul to pay Peter.

[document]

I'm assuming they still pay tithing. They have to maintain temple recommends. Besides, their paycheck doesn't come from tithing according to them.

[fh451]

So one other thing - if they are receiving a "stipend" or "living allowance" instead of a salary, and are therefore technically retired in the eyes of the IRS, are they allowed to collect social security too? If so, there's another side bennie that hasn't been mentioned.

[ETA] I looked up the rules and if you are older than "full retirement age" (which almost all the apostles are), then they can collect full SS benefits no matter how much you earn. If the stipend doesn't count as earned income, then they can collect even if they're not full retirement age.

fh451

[moksha]

I'm assuming they still pay tithing. They have to maintain temple recommends. Besides, their paycheck doesn't come from tithing according to them.

A lot of assumptions here.

[LSOF]

I read a rumour on r/exmormon that GAs are issued lifetime temple recommends, so they don't have to pay tithing to maintain worthiness. It seems rather pointless to pay tithing, too, when you are paid directly from the treasury of the Church.

[document]

In regards to paying tithing if you are paid by the church:

I do it. I donate $75 a month to my church, even though I draw a salary of $772.50 a month.
My priest does it, although she gives a full tithe, I sure as heck can't afford to.

If you consider it the same bucket, it means my salary is voluntarily lowered $8,370 compared to $9,270.

It does three things: (1) I get to write off the donations on my taxes, (2) it helps out our meager church budget (we run between $300,000 - $320,000 which isn't that much), and (3) it is a symbolic giving to the church that we are taking from.

[Hagoth]

These are men who have smiled approvingly at poor people prying gold fillings out of their teeth to pay their share of temple funds.

Sacrifice is good... for lesser beings..

[nibbler]

I read a rumour on r/exmormon that GAs are issued lifetime temple recommends, so they don't have to pay tithing to maintain worthiness. It seems rather pointless to pay tithing, too, when you are paid directly from the treasury of the Church.

For that matter why would anyone with a second anointing need to renew a temple recommend (or pay tithing)? I suppose they could continue to renew their TRs to keep the SA on the down-low.

[achilles]

You know, I would be totally fine if the Stake Presidents and Bishops were given money. They have to spend so much time away from their families (not that other callings don't also do that). I guess it's the way things used to be. Does anyone know when that practice ended?

[achilles]

And yeah, I would also be totally fine with the "modest" Q15/70 stipend if it were reduced to a much more modest amount. Especially considering all the perks.

[Korihor]

And yeah, I would also be totally fine with the "modest" Q15/70 stipend if it were reduced to a much more modest amount. Especially considering all the perks.

For me, they can keep getting the same "stipend" and perks. Just be transparent.

[alas]

The more I have thought about this, the more I realize that the part that bothers me most is that they ask us peons to sacrifice so much and yet think they are above having to sacrifice. They ask missionaries to leave their education and pay their own way to do proselytizing and they ask senior missionaries to give up their retirement and often live above their retirement income by pulling money out of savings, sometimes to work for free for the profit making arm of the church. They ask bishops to put in what amounts to a second full time job without pay and don't care that families suffer. I have seen two bishops divorce just after they are released because their wife felt unloved. It asks people to pay tithing before rent or groceries or medicine. My in laws were paying tithing but could not pay for medicine. Did the church compensate? No, the church said "ask your children to help." So we gave in laws money, while supporting a missionary, while paying tithing. They demand extreme sacrifice from members, while they live high on the hog.

[Flaming Meaux]

You'll notice from the pay stub that he doesn't pay SS tax.

To be fair though, since clergy earnings count as self-employment income, you wouldn't expect to see SS tax deducted from his paycheck. If self-employed, as has been mentioned, you pay both the employer share and the employee share of the SS tax, or 12.4%. Another distinction between being self-employed and being employed in the more traditional manner is that the entity contracting your employment in the self-employment context is also not obligated to withhold and remit that tax on your behalf they way they are with their own W-2 employees. Therefore, you don't see it as a line item deduction from a paystub. However, that doesn't mean that you, as the self-employed person, are not obligated to pay it.

We'd know he wasn't paying it if we were looking at his tax return, but the paystub doesn't provide any indication one way or the other because in this context you wouldn't expect SS tax to be withheld.

[/tax lawyer hat]

[document]

Interesting, our church takes the full 12.4% out of the salaried portion of her paycheck. They give stipends to reduce the overall burden of SS tax due to the self-employment rule.

[Newme]

The more I have thought about this, the more I realize that the part that bothers me most is that they ask us peons to sacrifice so much and yet think they are above having to sacrifice. They ask missionaries to leave their education and pay their own way to do proselytizing and they ask senior missionaries to give up their retirement and often live above their retirement income by pulling money out of savings, sometimes to work for free for the profit making arm of the church. They ask bishops to put in what amounts to a second full time job without pay and don't care that families suffer. I have seen two bishops divorce just after they are released because their wife felt unloved. It asks people to pay tithing before rent or groceries or medicine. My in laws were paying tithing but could not pay for medicine. Did the church compensate? No, the church said "ask your children to help." So we gave in laws money, while supporting a missionary, while paying tithing. They demand extreme sacrifice from members, while they live high on the hog.

Exactly. Hypocrisy so clear that only those in deep mind-control leader worship, cannot see it for what it is. We're asked regularly if we are a "worthy full-tithe payer" and if so we can serve and enter the temple etc.... but if not, too bad. Yet, what accountability do they have about their money that they gather? None. Not one legitimate annual tithing settlement.

What is most disturbing is when you've been to really dirt poor countries where people are sick and dying because of extreme poverty and realize they are being denied what is rightfully theirs. According to the WHO, about 1/7 (1,000,000,000) of our brothers and sisters are chronically hungry. Often governments do not help their poor - the poor desperately need help from others. This is the primary purpose of TITHING. Deut. 14:28-29 states that about 1/3 of TITHES are to be given to those in need.

If you pick up lds scripture books and look in the topic guide or dictionary under "tithing" -you won't see that scripture. Why? Because lds church leaders disobey it. They pretend it's not part of the law of tithing. Although church money is kept dark and secret, Oaks admitted that NO TITHES go to those in need, and commanded members to pay extra for that. That's wrong. They're robbing the poor and indirectly causing many to suffer and die because of their stealing money from the "least of these."

I imagine if I were a mother of children who were starving to death (as many are). When I think of people like that, I feel the need to let members know of this horrible financial corruption in the church - and suggest they redirect their tithes in better, more honest and financially transparent ways. http://www.charitynavigator.org/